Nikolaos Giannoukakis
Παλαιό Μέλος
"anthrwpia kai sevasmo"
Amhn.
N.
Amhn.
N.
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The Distinctive Sound of HOCNA Choirs in the Boston Area
- Thread starter GabrielCremeens
- Start date
Matthaios Vlachos attached a fascinating PDF file to this Psaltologion post that shows the reasoning behind re-introducing the "symbols of Karas" by using a single example. I don't know enough about the old notation and musicological research to say for sure, but I suspect that this page is just one of many such examples that could be presented to justify their reasoning. Would this kind of thing be the "key" you are asking for, or is there something else you have in mind?
Thank you Fr. Ephraim. A wonderful example of the micro-analyses of the symbols that Karas re-introduces to give interpretive keys and options to each chanter and choir; a phenomenon that oral tradition illustrates.
Nikolaos Giannoukakis
Παλαιό Μέλος
It would be appropriate to include the ENTIRE communication of Fr. Ephraim to understand the texture and nuance of what he writes and his reasoning.
***********************
You raise the issue of paleography. Please answer the following questions. Do not avoid the questions. Answer directly.
1) The exegesis of the Three Teachers was made to simplify a mnemonic neumatology, is this correct? A yes or no please.
2) The quantitative and qualitative actions of a single old neume differred depending on the cadential and tonal context, yes or no?
Now, please look at the pdf files in the link here carefully and then come back to consider the following points and then answer the remainder of the questions:
http://www.psaltologion.com/showpost.php?p=79747&postcount=1
3) Now that you had an opportunity to look at the pdfs of the Mega Ison in the notation of Petros Pelopponesios and the exegeses of Chourmouzios and Nileas Kamarados, it becomes evident that one single old neume, from the simple quantitative to especially the qualitative neumes have completely different exegeses depending on tonal, subtonal and cadential context. Do you agree?
4) The Patriachal Committees and the subsequent music conservatories of Constantinople agreed that the Chrysanthine exegesis was not only appropriate but that it translated the oral tradition faithfully. Do you agree with what those groups decreed?
5) The Karas Method re-introduced some of the old neumes. To some it assigns a specific qualitative action. To others it assigns a specific linear musical cadence. Do you agree?
So, let;s consider the actions of the Karas old paleography neumes (that you quite likely execute at your analogion).
a) Is the action of any of the old neumes directed by Karas IDENTICAL or CLOSE to the EXEGESIS of the same neume in the MEGA ISON by Chourmouzios or Nileas?
b) If so, please indicate where by making a table showing the neume in question (i.e. tromikon), the action or cadence directed by Karas for that neume and finally, the action/cadence of that same neume as derived from the MEGA ISON exegesis of Chourmouzios and or Nileas.
To guide you:
NEUME --------- ACTION (KARAS) ----------- ACTION (CHOURMOUZIOS, based on exegesis from the Mega Ison) -------- ACTION (NILEAS, Mega Ison exegesis)
tromikon -------------- xxx-xxx-x-x ---------------- xxx-xxx-x-x ----------------- -------------------------------------- ------------------------- xxx-xxx-x-x
If you wish a civil, learned and scientific discussion, unlike the very unhelpful flame war of this weekend, then please avoid replying until the time you have constructed this table for everyone to consider.
Thank you for your consideration and interest in academic discourse.
NG
***********************
You raise the issue of paleography. Please answer the following questions. Do not avoid the questions. Answer directly.
1) The exegesis of the Three Teachers was made to simplify a mnemonic neumatology, is this correct? A yes or no please.
2) The quantitative and qualitative actions of a single old neume differred depending on the cadential and tonal context, yes or no?
Now, please look at the pdf files in the link here carefully and then come back to consider the following points and then answer the remainder of the questions:
http://www.psaltologion.com/showpost.php?p=79747&postcount=1
3) Now that you had an opportunity to look at the pdfs of the Mega Ison in the notation of Petros Pelopponesios and the exegeses of Chourmouzios and Nileas Kamarados, it becomes evident that one single old neume, from the simple quantitative to especially the qualitative neumes have completely different exegeses depending on tonal, subtonal and cadential context. Do you agree?
4) The Patriachal Committees and the subsequent music conservatories of Constantinople agreed that the Chrysanthine exegesis was not only appropriate but that it translated the oral tradition faithfully. Do you agree with what those groups decreed?
5) The Karas Method re-introduced some of the old neumes. To some it assigns a specific qualitative action. To others it assigns a specific linear musical cadence. Do you agree?
So, let;s consider the actions of the Karas old paleography neumes (that you quite likely execute at your analogion).
a) Is the action of any of the old neumes directed by Karas IDENTICAL or CLOSE to the EXEGESIS of the same neume in the MEGA ISON by Chourmouzios or Nileas?
b) If so, please indicate where by making a table showing the neume in question (i.e. tromikon), the action or cadence directed by Karas for that neume and finally, the action/cadence of that same neume as derived from the MEGA ISON exegesis of Chourmouzios and or Nileas.
To guide you:
NEUME --------- ACTION (KARAS) ----------- ACTION (CHOURMOUZIOS, based on exegesis from the Mega Ison) -------- ACTION (NILEAS, Mega Ison exegesis)
tromikon -------------- xxx-xxx-x-x ---------------- xxx-xxx-x-x ----------------- -------------------------------------- ------------------------- xxx-xxx-x-x
If you wish a civil, learned and scientific discussion, unlike the very unhelpful flame war of this weekend, then please avoid replying until the time you have constructed this table for everyone to consider.
Thank you for your consideration and interest in academic discourse.
NG
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